If you have found this page useful, why not make a donation to The Peerage Research Trust so that we can continue to develop and expand Cracroft's Peerage?

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Say, Baron (E, 1313 - 1399)

Creation: writ summ. 26 Jul 1313

Abeyant: 8 Jul 1399

Family name: Say

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Arms:

Crest:

Supporters:

Motto:

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Geoffrey [de Say], 1st Baron Say

son and heir of William de Say by his wife Elizabeth ...

born

c. 1281

mar.

Idonia de Leyburn, dau. of William [de Leyburn], 1st Baron Leyburn, by his wife Juliane de Sandwich, dau. and hrss. of Sir Henry de Sandwich

children

1. Geoffrey de Say, later 2nd Baron Say

2. Roger de Say

3. Ralph de Say

1. Katherine de Say (d. after 29 Sep 1355), mar. c. 1320 John [de Saint John], 3rd Baron Saint John of Lageham, and had issue

2. Juliane de Say (d. 20 Feb 1329), mar. as his first wife Roger [de Northwode], 3rd Baron Northwode, and had issue

died

bef. 3 Mar 1321/2

created

by writ of summons 26 Jul 1313 Baron Say

suc. by

son

Geoffrey [de Say], 2nd Baron Say

born

c. 1304

mar.

Lady Maud de Beauchamp (d. 28 Jul 1369), 1st dau. of Guy [de Beauchamp], 10th Earl of Warwick, by his wife Alice de Leyburn, widow of Thomas de Leyburn, 1st son and heir ap. of William [de Leyburn], 1st Baron Leyburn, and sister and hrss. of Robert [de Toni], 1st Baron Toni, and only dau. of Ralph de Toni VII, of Flamsted, co. Hertford, by his wife Mary ....

children

1. William de Say, later 3rd Baron Say

2. Thomas de Say (dvp. young)

3. John de Say (dvp. young)

1. Idonia de Say (d. c. 1384), mar.c. 1350 as his first wife John [de Clinton], 3rd Baron Clinton, and had issue

2. Elizabeth de Say (dsp), mar. Thomas de Aldone

3. Joane de Say, mar. (1) 12 Nov 1351 Sir William Fiennes, of Hurstmonceaux, co. Sussex (b. 2 Feb 1331/2; d. 30 Nov 1359), and (2) Stephen de Valence, and had issue by her first husband:

1a. Sir William Fiennes, of Hurstmonceaux, co. Sussex, Sheriff of Surrey and Sussex (b. 1 Aug 1357; d. 18 Jan 1402/3), mar. Elizabeth Batsford, dau. of William Batsford by his wife Margery Pepplesham, and had issue:

1b. Sir Roger Fiennes, of Hurstmonceaux, co. Sussex (b. 14 Sep 1384; d. bef. 18 Nov 1449), mar. 13 Aug 1409 Elizabeth Holland, sister of Sir John Holland, and had issue:

1c. Sir Richard Fiennes, of Hurstmonceaux, co. Sussex, later 1st/7th Baron Dacre

1c. Margaret Fiennes (b. c. 1414; d. 1446), mar.

2b. James Fiennes, later 1st Baron Saye & Sele

2a. John Fiennes (d. 1378/9). mar. Sir Nicholas Carew, of Beddington and Great Purley, co. Surrey (d. 1467/8), 1st son and heir of Nicholas Carew MP, of Beddington and Great Purley, co. Surrey, Sheriff of Surrey and Sussex, by his first wife Isabel ...., and had issue

died

26 Jun 1359

suc. by

son

note

engaged in military service almost the whole of his life; fought at the Battle of Crécy 1346; Constable of Rochester Castle 1354-59

William [de Say], 3rd Baron Say

born

17 Jun 1340

mar.

Beatrice de Brewose, sister and hrss. in her issue of Sir Thomas de Brewose, of Manningford Bruce, co. Wiltshire, Tetbury, co. Gloucester, etc., and only dau. of Thomas [de Brewose], 1st Baron Brewose, by his wife Beatrice Plantagenet, widow of Edward Plantagenet, son and heir ap. of Thomas "of Brotherton", 1st Earl of Norfolk, and 7th dau. of Roger [de Mortimer], 1st Earl of March, by his wife Joan de Geneville, dau. and hrss. of Sir Piers de Geneville, of Ludlow, co. Salop (by his wife Joan d'Albret, widow of Bernard-Ezy I, Sire d'Albret, and dau. of Hugh XII, Count of La Marche and Angoulême, by his wife Jehanne, dau. and hrss. of Raoul, Seigneur de Fougéres), 2nd but 1st son and heir ap. of Geoffrey [de Geneville], 1st Baron Geneville

children

1. John de Say, later 4th Baron Say

1. Elizabeth de Say, de jure Baroness Say and Leyburn

died

bef. 7 Aug 1371

suc. by

son

John [de Say], 4th Baron Say

born

1373

died

27 Jul 1382

suc. by

sister

Elizabeth de Say, de jure Baroness Say and Leyburn

born

24 Feb 1365/6

mar. (1)

aft. 27 Jul 1382 Sir John de Falvesle, of Fawsley, co. Northampton, son and hr. of Thomas de Falvesle, of Fawsley, co. Northampton, he was first summ. to Parliament on 20 Aug 1383, whereby he is held to have become Lord Falvesle or perhaps Lord Say (dsp. bef. Nov 1393)

mar. (2)

bef. 25 Nov 1393 as his first wife Sir William Heron, who was first summ. to Parliament on 13 Nov 1393, whereby he is held to have become Lord Heron or perhaps Lord Say (dsp. 30 Oct 1404), 2nd son of Sir John Heron, of Eppledon, co. Durham

died

s.p. 8 Jul 1399

note

she was a substantial heiress:  from her brother she inherited in 1382 the manors of Sawbridgeworth, co. Hertford, Buxted and Street, co. Sussex, Birling, Cudham, Burham and West Greenwich, co. Kent, ad through her mother she inherited in 1395 the manors of Manningford Bruce, co. Wiltshire, Tetbury, co. Gloucester, Sedgwick and Bidlington, co. Sussex, and Bookham and Bramley, co. Surrey;  on 30 Dec 1389 she inherited the Barony of Leyburn on the death of her third cousin once removed, John [de Hastings], 14th/3rd Earl of Pembroke and 5th Baron Leyburn

On her death in 1399 the Baronies of Say and Leyburn fell into abeyance between the descendants of her aunts, the daughters of the 2nd Baron Say.  In 1446 her first cousin one removed, James Fiennes, was created Baron Saye & Sele.

First written 21 May 2021

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"